In this episode of Hello Chaos, Jennifer “JJ” Sutton sits down with Tom Freiling, founder and chairman of the Freiling Agency. Tom shares over 30 years of experience in publishing and entrepreneurship, offering insights into the grind and rewards of building a business. He talks about the power of self-awareness, navigating failures, and the myths that cloud the entrepreneurial journey. From AI’s role in the publishing world to the importance of authenticity, Tom’s perspective is a refreshing reminder that growth is always possible.
Key Takeaways
🚀 The Freedom Myth in Entrepreneurship
Think entrepreneurship means total freedom? Think again. Tom challenges entrepreneurs to embrace the grind and focus on building purpose-driven businesses.
🔥 Turn Failures Into Fuel
"Failure is just part of our journey." For entrepreneurs, setbacks aren’t endings—they’re opportunities to learn, adapt, and come back stronger.
🌍 Stay Authentic in a Changing World
With AI transforming industries, Tom advises entrepreneurs to lean into their authenticity. In a crowded market, staying true to your values sets you apart.
Timestamps
00:00 The Journey into Publishing
03:02 The Rewards and Challenges of Entrepreneurship
05:36 Breakthrough Moments and Lessons Learned
08:08 Self-Discovery and Personal Growth
10:52 Myths of Entrepreneurship
13:40 Future Aspirations and Business Growth
17:59 Leveraging Social Media for Success
18:55 Future Initiatives and Ambitions
22:37 The Importance of Cheerleaders in Entrepreneurship
27:02 Spirituality and Support in Business
28:56 Advice for Entrepreneurs
32:23 The Impact of Authenticity in a Changing Landscape
34:08 Looking Ahead: Wisdom and Influence
36:05 Connecting with Authors and Final Thoughts
Connect with Tom:
Website: https://www.freilingagency.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomfreiling/
Twitter: https://x.com/TomFreiling
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:01)
Hello and welcome to Hello Chaos, the weekly podcast dedicated to serving founders, entrepreneurs, and innovators. We talk to founders every week and get to hear the unvarnished viewpoints, the real, the raw, the ah-has, the oh-shits, moments of what it means to be a founder. Today, our guest is Tom Freiling. He is the founder and chairman of the...
Tom Freiling (00:20)
you
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:27)
Freiling Agency which is a publishing agency for world changers, CEOs, and business leaders.
Tom is also a member of Forbes Business Council and writer for Entrepreneur Media. We're so excited to have him on our show today. Welcome. Welcome to the chaos, Tom.
Tom Freiling (00:42)
Thanks,
Jennifer. I'm super glad to be on the podcast today. Thanks for inviting me.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:48)
Absolutely. Well, why don't you just start us out? How did you get involved in publishing and then starting your own agency?
Tom Freiling (00:56)
That's a great question. I've been involved in publishing virtually my entire career going back 30 plus years. I don't like to say that because it makes me feel sound old, but...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (01:07)
I know. I was like, I'm the
same way. I'm like, ooh, I've got 30 years. Ooh, I'm dating myself now. That's terrible.
Tom Freiling (01:11)
Right, right.
You know, I fell into it. It was my first job out of college as I was a telemarketer for a book publishing company. And 30 years later, I'm still in the industry. So it was not intentional. But, but I'm glad that I did because I've always loved what I do. And I still love what I do. So but I was not an entrepreneur. Initially, I probably for I don't know, 10 or so years, I worked for
established publishing companies. And then around the year 2000, so almost 25 years ago, I launched my first company, I went out on my own, kind of a long story, but it was really, I experienced a personal crisis, which forced me out of my, my job, my, my W two employed job. And it really, it wasn't by
It wasn't my choice necessarily. It forced me to leave my job and to launch something on my own. So I did that in the year 2000 and have been on my own for most of most of the last 25 years. I sold, I sold two companies. So in between that I did. Yeah. had two exits. during that time I did go to work for the.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:30)
That's fantastic. Fantastic, yeah.
Tom Freiling (02:37)
companies that acquired my company. So I was an employee again. It was really hard to be an employee.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:43)
I was like, how did
that go? you, cause I always ask myself, could I be an employee again? Could I do that? I'm not sure.
Tom Freiling (02:49)
It's hard. It
was really hard for sure. And I didn't last very long when I did that. you know, I it's a blessing and a curse to be an entrepreneur, right? It really is.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:55)
I'm
Yeah,
absolutely. So what's been the most rewarding part?
Tom Freiling (03:11)
The most rewarding part of being an entrepreneur? Wow, that's a great question. It's the feeling of satisfaction, of building something, of creating something that is successful. I think being an entrepreneur is a bit of an addiction, really. That's what I liken it to. You're kind of like a gambler, right, in Las Vegas.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:14)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tom Freiling (03:39)
And when
you win, it's just such a great feeling, you know, to know that you accomplished something and that you're to successful. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that's, that's a little different than when you're working for somebody else, you know. So, and I mean, for me personally, I'm still, I've had some successes. I've had some failures too. I don't put the failures on LinkedIn, you know, just the successes, but I've had failure.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:45)
And you did it, like you did it, yeah.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Well,
I think we all have, right? I can tell you, I call it, I told somebody, was like, I found her that we talked to on the show. She was like, well, I fell forward. And I said, you know, I used to think that like, failure is just part, just part of the path. part of our journey. But I kind of have stopped saying, fail forward or even just failures. I'm just calling them lessons learned. Like I don't even con...
Tom Freiling (04:09)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:34)
because they're not, you learn from them. And so I'm like, I don't even want to put that in my vernacular anymore. It is just lessons.
Tom Freiling (04:35)
Yeah.
It's very true.
That's a great way to look at it. You have to, and you do learn from those things. And I mean, I can honestly say that a couple of my biggest mistakes resulted in things that were very positive for me in terms of my personal development and in terms of my entrepreneurial journey. I would say like years later, you look back at some of those mistakes or alleged failures.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:49)
That's right.
Yeah.
Tom Freiling (05:11)
and you're grateful for them. But when you're in the middle of it, you're not grateful for it. Right. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:11)
Right? Yeah, absolutely. it feels, it hurts. It's painful.
What's been the most challenging part for you?
Tom Freiling (05:23)
the most challenging part for me... wow.
There's so many challenges, you know. I think for me, it's learning to wear a lot of different hats. know, when you are on your own, especially when you are of a small company, mean, let's say a business of less than a dozen employees or so, you're putting on different hats all day long. And that really can be challenging at times. You're putting on the
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:42)
Yeah.
Right? Well, everybody's wearing multiple hats.
Tom Freiling (06:03)
the chief financial officer hat, and then you're putting on the marketing hats and the human resource hat. It's hard to keep on changing hats all day long. So I would say even hap, having done it for 30 years, it's still a challenge for me to do that. You know, so, I think I've learned to try to, not to be intentional about not.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:13)
Yeah.
Tom Freiling (06:30)
changing the hat too often and tried to carve out or block out times of the day or the week to put on the one hat and then to take it off and forget about it, you know, and then go do something else.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:43)
That's right. think
that I call it like time blocking or you know, it's and it becomes kind of a strategy of like, how am I going to get all this done? And you're right. It's like we have to pivot. But it's how do I carve out I've got to be a content creator, right? So now it's like I got to carve out time or no, I need to focus on the business vision, you know, visioning. So I need to carve out that time. Yeah, yeah. What do you think is the has been
Tom Freiling (07:06)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:12)
you know, was there any kind of like breakthrough moments in your journey? You know, maybe it's with starting friling or maybe it was with one of the ones that you exited. But was there any kind of like breakthrough moment of like, aha, like, this is it. I figured it out.
Tom Freiling (07:32)
I don't know about breakthrough moment, but I do think I have learned that my successes felt like successes very early on in the journey of that particular company.
I would say almost immediately it looked and felt like it was going to work. And others, not so much. But I continued to push forward into the ones that didn't initially look like they were going to be successful because I thought, I can figure it out. I'll make it work. But I couldn't make it work and I didn't. So this is just.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:10)
Right.
What was the
part that didn't work? I'm just curious, like, was there something that you're like, just, I couldn't figure it out. Like, what was that? What was the barrier?
Tom Freiling (08:24)
I mean, think it was the customers weren't buying it. So if the customer wasn't interested, I thought, well, maybe if I spend more money in marketing, then it'll work. Or maybe if I, I don't know, change the pricing, then it will work. You've got all these levers. And maybe if I push this lever, pull this lever,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:39)
Yeah.
Tom Freiling (08:54)
then it will work. I don't know, but you know, I think for some entrepreneurs, that does work for them, because I've heard stories of people that just continue to push and push and push and eventually it works. Maybe I'm not patient enough, but you know, my biggest successes, I would say just a very short time into it, I looked at it and at everything and I thought, hey, this is going to work. you know, the
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:56)
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Tom Freiling (09:23)
The customer is genuinely interested. They're buying it immediately. So I don't know if that makes sense or not, but
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:31)
It does,
it's like you finally go, all right, I have clarity of message, like my offer, the value proposition, and there's somebody that wants it. So I'm solving a problem, I've clarified what that is and talked about the value they receive, and they're connecting with it, which is, you kind of develop that brand story, that's awesome.
Tom Freiling (09:50)
Bye.
Yeah.
I
read a story once about the founders of Uber and I don't know what their names are. And the story goes, they started in San Francisco with just a few cars. I think it was like three cars and it was just a few weeks in and they knew, they knew they had something, you know, it was like, Hey, this is going to work. Then of course it was a matter of scaling, which is a huge job and you can, you know, you can succeed or fail at that, but they knew that the core idea was going to work. So.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:12)
Yeah.
Right.
Tom Freiling (10:29)
I guess that's what I'm saying is there have been a few occasions where I knew that the core idea was going to work. Then it was a matter of scaling and building and that's huge. That's a huge job. But there's a couple other times where the core idea and I should have noticed it sooner than I did, you know, but I kept on pushing and pushing, hoping that somehow I could get that core idea to work. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:37)
That is huge. Yeah.
Right.
So, you know, we all kind of learn about ourselves through this journey, kind of that self exploration, self awareness, all that. Is there anything that, you know, as you as you've gone through this, that really surprised you about yourself? you're like, that's a aha about me.
Tom Freiling (11:11)
Hmm.
Mmm, wow,
Well, I do think it's really, it's very important to be self aware as a business owner. It's really important. If you're not self aware, this can be an uphill battle every day. that, and I guess I've learned to be more self aware. man, that's such a great question. You know, I, I've, don't know if this answers your question directly, but I learned that I was an impatient person. And I think that's.
a good and a bad thing, blessing and a curse as an entrepreneur. But I have learned that it is important to be patient, more patient than I normally would be at times with things, whether it's with people, you know, whatever it is. So I have have learned, you know, to be more patient and with myself as well. I wake up in the morning and I
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:01)
Yes, with people, yeah.
Tom Freiling (12:15)
grand idea of what I'm going to do that day. And I'm I'm excited, wide eyed, and I'm going to accomplish, you know, 10 things or 100 things. By the end of the day, I'm worn down and frustrated because I haven't gotten half of them, you know, and then I start the same thing every every morning. I feel like this is my routine, you know, so but and then the frustration would build up in me over time. And but I learned to be more patient. learned to I've learned to be more of a plotter, you know,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:24)
you
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Tom Freiling (12:45)
to plot my way through.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:46)
that's a good,
yeah, that's a good term. Yeah, I can totally relate to that. think, you know, in working in the corporate, it's not your company, like, you just kind of plow through. But yeah, you have to be, not everything kind of works out. Again, you wear multiple hats, you pivot constantly during the day. It's like, if I can at least get one or two things done that I had set out for the day, and then like, I just learned, hey, I got one thing off my...
Tom Freiling (13:06)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:15)
that I thought
I was gonna work on. But yeah, like patience, definitely, definitely more patient. What do you think is the biggest myth out there of being a founder, being a business owner, that you're like, uh-uh, that is such a myth, I'm gonna bust that right now. That you were like so disappointed, everyone said these things, they lied.
Tom Freiling (13:37)
there's a lot of them.
There's so many myths. In some ways, it's all one giant myth, you know? I don't know, there's so many, maybe that you have more freedom because in some ways, yes, in some ways, not at all. When you own a business, you are on 24 seven, 365 days a year. There is no escaping the business.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:47)
Yeah.
Right, right.
Tom Freiling (14:10)
I remember distinctly, this was many years ago and I had about maybe 40 employees at the time and it was Black Friday and somehow payroll got messed up and nobody got paid. This is on Black Friday. And I remember going into that weekend thinking, this is going to be nice. got four days. Yeah. Uh-huh. And I, couldn't believe it was happening to me. So I spent the better part of Friday morning working all this out, talking to employees, et cetera, talking to the payroll company.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:24)
yeah.
That's an shit moment right there.
Tom Freiling (14:40)
And I really lost the day after Thanksgiving. I lost my own Black Friday. So that's just an example of, you don't, in many ways, you're not more free than then. Now, in some ways you are, you know, you can choose your own schedule more so you can, you can certainly do things that an employee might not be able to do, you know.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:44)
Yeah.
Right.
You know, can choose like who you work with, like especially you can choose the people you want to help publish.
Tom Freiling (15:08)
Yeah.
Yeah, you can. You can make more choices. That is definitely true. So that's a good thing.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:16)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. So, you know, as you've kind of done your self-awareness and discovery on yourself, what's something that is, what's something that you really like about yourself that you wish other people recognized more?
Tom Freiling (15:37)
well that's a great question. Something I like about myself that I wish other people... Wow. Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:43)
Yeah.
Or maybe there's a myth that people have about you. They're like, you're like,
no, that's, I am not that type of person.
Tom Freiling (15:52)
Mm hmm.
well, I'm a I'm a pretty, I'm a quiet people typically think I'm probably a quiet reserved sort of guy. But I'm kind of a goofball, actually. So I'm not as there's a creative side of me and a goofy side of me that people don't often see, I would say. I'm not as serious as I look. Okay, most of the time. So
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:12)
Yeah.
Tom Freiling (16:20)
And I like helping people too. genuinely do like helping out, you know, other people when I, when I can. So.
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:30)
Playful and giving, right? There you go, there you go. Okay, so I have a question for you. If you had no fears, what would you be doing? Would you be doing exactly what you're doing now or would you be doing something else? No fears, no worry about, do I have enough money or I need to take care of, know.
Tom Freiling (16:32)
Maybe those are two good words, yeah.
If I had no fears.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:59)
family and whatever, like no fears of anything, no barriers. Would you be doing exactly what you're doing or is there something else you'd
Tom Freiling (17:06)
I don't know that I would not be doing exactly what I'm doing. I would like to start something that grew to be much bigger than anything I have. And I know that typically entails finding investors, investment working with banks. Everything I've done has been bootstrapped. I've never taken on an investor. I've never gone to a bank for a loan.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:25)
Right.
that's it.
Tom Freiling (17:36)
And I think that's great, but sometimes I do envy and wonder about those individuals who really just, their companies just blew up, you know, to be very large. And I've recognized that the only way that really happens is you have to find the money to do it. And that means investors or banks means loans. and I'm, I'm, I admittedly, I'm kind of afraid of going there, you know, it's. So if I had no fears, that's what I would do. I would go, I would go.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:37)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tom Freiling (18:06)
fight a bunch of investors or banks that would work with me and just really blow something up. So, and I think I might do that someday.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:14)
Yeah.
Well, I was like, okay, so that leads to my next question then. If you could change two things about your business today, two things, what would it be?
Tom Freiling (18:25)
I mean, I would like it to be bigger, but that's, I don't know that's a good answer or not. I'd like it to be larger. I don't know. Wow. That's a great question. These are, these questions are so enlightening for me. That's going to help me think about next year and my goals for 2025.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:29)
Yeah.
That's right.
we're gonna manifest on this episode right now.
Tom Freiling (18:48)
There we go. Right,
exactly. Well, here's what it would be. I have learned that growing a business, it's all about finding your customers. And it's a numbers game. You have to have, you got to have a lead generation. And if you don't have the leads, you're not going to have the customers. So, and I have learned this, I would say, especially over the last few years since COVID.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:02)
All right.
Right.
Tom Freiling (19:17)
Lead generation is super important. And so I'm really working on that. And because I've recognized if I have more better leads, my business will naturally grow. I've been publishing books for 30 years. I know how to do it. You know, that's not my problem.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:33)
Yeah. I
was going to ask you, like, how do you find the authors that you want to publish? that's, I is that what you're doing? Like, how do you seek them? Do you go and pitch to go, hey, I think you have a cool story, let me help you? is it more like you're trying to get people who have, hey, I've got an idea, I've got a book, maybe I've written something, I need someone to help me publish it. Does it work both ways? Or is one...
Tom Freiling (19:40)
Mm-hmm.
I'm sorry.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:03)
your target better than the other.
Tom Freiling (20:05)
Well, some of it is word of mouth because I've been doing it for a long time. people just naturally seek me out. I'm very active on social media, particularly LinkedIn. I'm very aggressive. I post, I post every day, I engage in a rack with a lot of people.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:10)
Yeah.
Yeah, I follow you. Yeah, you're great. It's great.
Tom Freiling (20:27)
That has been a gold mine for me. It truly has been. So I would say that's been my secret sauce. I discovered it during COVID when all of a sudden everybody was on LinkedIn because everybody was at their house working, you know, so yeah, and their boss wasn't looking over their shoulders. So they were sitting on LinkedIn all day. So I learned that it was a great place to find high quality individuals. And it allows you to learn about
the individual before you talk to them. So you can really see who they are and what their experiences and backgrounds are and stuff. So that has helped me immensely. that is where most, that is where I find most of my authors.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:11)
Yeah,
that's me. So here's another manifestation question for you, Tom. If we met a year from now and we go meet and celebrate over coffee or cocktails, whatever, what would we be celebrating one year from now?
Tom Freiling (21:30)
What would it be to celebrate one year from now? I'm going to say I am launching three new initiatives in January. So we would be celebrating some measure of success for those three, at least for one of them. Let's put it that way. So yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:43)
Okay, ambitious.
What
would you can you share what they are to you? You know, this is like no, no, that's my that's my competitive advantage. I'm not gonna share that but is there anything specific?
Tom Freiling (21:57)
Thank
no, I'm happy to share
it. And I actually don't believe in, I never hold back. I never worry about competitors. I never have and never will. There's Burger King, McDonald's and how many Hamburg, Wendy's, right? In every industry, there's many, many, many competitors. I never worry about that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:20)
Right.
I know.
I'm so glad you say that too, because when I talk to other founders and you're in these, I don't share my, why? you've done your business right and brand, you bring something to the table that nobody else can provide. It shouldn't be able to be copied. But it's also, we're all in it together.
Tom Freiling (22:34)
Thank
for me.
Yeah, Yeah, exactly.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:54)
two of let's build the category. Because sometimes it's like people don't even know some of this category or industries even exist. So it's like, it just helps us all elevate and collaborate.
Tom Freiling (22:55)
you
Exactly. Well, we're launching a direct-to-consumer
business in 2025 because most of my business now as a publisher is I sell to wholesalers and work with distributors. I have done some direct-to-consumer work over the last couple of years, have learned that e-commerce essentially.
That's number one. Number two, we acquired a small company recently called Dentisaurus. And Dentisaurus is a custom children's book publisher for pediatric dental practices. Dentisaurus essentially, yeah, that's a niche, all right. So it's a customized book that the pediatric dental practices give to the children when they come into the practice.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:43)
that's it, Mitch. That's fantastic. Yeah.
Tom Freiling (23:56)
It's an old company. It's about 30 years old, it's small. So we're going to reinvent that and relaunch that next year. So that's number two. What is the third one? The third one I haven't completely worked out in my mind. It's an extension of what we do right now, which is helping authors publish their books.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:10)
Okay, what's the third one?
Okay.
Tom Freiling (24:26)
You know, essentially, I want to provide a more upscale, high quality experience for authors. that's a.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:38)
So like a nice little like green room experience for your authors.
Tom Freiling (24:43)
Yes, something like that. You know, and I want to compete. I want to compete more with the big publishers, the random houses of the world and the Harper Collins. And our books are I feel like they're I'm biased, but they're high quality books and we get good distribution. But I want to go head to head with some of our books with the large publishers. So. Yeah, that's number three.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:06)
All
right, so we're gonna man up a direct to consumer, a little DTC program gets you out there. Dentisaurus division, gonna watch that. And then an upscale way to, for your existing authors. That's great. Who has been your greatest cheerleader in your career, in your journey? Has somebody kind of, or maybe it's multiple people.
Tom Freiling (25:20)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:36)
that really have kind of been on that sidelines keeping you going.
Tom Freiling (25:39)
Yeah, but that's a really good question. So I've had multiple cheerleaders. But this is something that's a great question because this is something I, an entrepreneur, I think about oftentimes. I think it's really hard for business owners to be very transparent about
what they are experiencing on a day-to-day basis with anybody in their life. Even with those who they love the most. Because sometimes you just can't be as honest as you might want to be about the challenges that you're going through, So I think it's a huge issue for entrepreneurs. And even finding those cheerleaders or cheerleader, it's a tough thing to do, I think. Because...
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't think you can always just go home and be a hundred percent transparent. Say, know what? we don't have any money today or we can't spend any money for, you know, 30 days because things aren't going well at the business or, you know, whatever. So, and you can't really do that with your, your staff either. Like you can be, I feel like you can be somewhat transparent, but you honestly cannot share everything that the business is going through. Positive or negative.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:30)
Great.
Right.
Tom Freiling (26:51)
So I do think it is hard sometimes challenging to find that cheerleader or that one person who you can always depend on to support you. And no matter what you say, you know, no matter what you tell them, I don't know if you've experienced that yourself, but.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:07)
Yeah. Yeah.
I did. I mean, I felt you do feel very isolated. You feel very alone. I kind of went through that the first five years that I started the marketing agency. And then, know, I found myself, I stumbled into a minority business accelerator in a community that was like, my gosh, everybody feels the same way that we all feel like we have no safe space to have a
Tom Freiling (27:36)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:40)
you know, to be open and vulnerable and kind of talk through issues. And those were, that was like an explosion of a house, like for me in that year, that was back in 2018. So I was in the business for about five, six years. And, and I still lean on some of my cohorts, like, you even though we're not in the same, but just to go, Hey, you know, we meet monthly still, and we all kind of go, what's in our head, what's in our stress? And we just try to be
Tom Freiling (27:44)
Yeah
I'm out.
Mm-hmm
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:10)
cheerleaders, know, I need, I've done a win. And I know it's like, I was like, share, it's so silly. I can't really share this with the team because I don't know if they're going to see it. Like it's such a silly thing, but I'm like, I need to share it because I need somebody to just pat me on the back. Cause I think that, you know, cause then it becomes, they
understand they're like, I've been in your show. you know, or like the terrible lows. and, and just, I need, I need to talk through.
this with somebody. And I have relied on that community. And that's one of reasons I started Orange Web, the media company and Hello Chaos was really getting these thoughts, the normalization of, yeah, it's kind of scary being out there. We need cheerleaders. We need a community. And how do we build a more connected community? Because we all have shared
Tom Freiling (28:46)
Thank you.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:07)
very much shared experiences.
know, similar themes of challenges. Our journeys might be unique, but the themes repeat itself. And then, yeah. So how do we, how do we find, because we all need a safe space to.
Tom Freiling (29:12)
Definitely.
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:31)
to really be vulnerable and get what's, and then even if someone's just listening, because sometimes we can work it through in our own self, but we've got to get it out. It's just, it's terrible to hold it in. So I'll be your cheerleader, Tom. I'll be your sideline cheerleader. That's great.
Tom Freiling (29:46)
Yes, is. That is definitely. There you go. Right. I found one. I agree.
I think it's really important to find a group like you have. And I have been involved in a couple of groups over the years. I'm not right now. So CEOs or business owners. That is really valuable. You know, I'm also I'm a person of faith and I've learned to lean on that as well. So I do encourage
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:02)
Yeah.
Anyway.
Tom Freiling (30:14)
people to explore spirituality as well. It doesn't get discussed as much as it should because I think, and sometimes for good reasons, because we have to respect each other's faith, their faith origin and where they align spiritually. But I would say for me personally, if I didn't have that, I'd be in trouble. So I think of those occasions that have been the most difficult for me, I have turned to my faith and found the most support.
So I will say that as well and I encourage everybody to, you know, to don't ignore that. You know, it's, it can be a very important part of who we are and our makeup. So I think if you ignore it, you're probably being foolish. So.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:49)
That's right.
That's right.
That's right. I totally agree. I think I doubled down in my spiritual and kind of went and explored much deeper through my journey. So I totally agree. And we hear that. That's it. Again, that's a repeated kind of theme that has that we've discovered over the interviews that we've done over the last couple of years. You know, I think it's commonalities among founders and business. Yeah.
Tom Freiling (31:14)
Thank
That's very interesting. yeah, being
an entrepreneur will drive you to your knees for sure. So if anything does, it's that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:28)
That's right.
Well, you as I mean, you've been in it, you know, done this for for now, almost 30 years. What is there a piece of advice that you've received from other business leaders that you've, you know, that you've come in your life or other another founder that you really took to heart that you want to share to other founders and entrepreneurs or just things that like
No, no, these are some of the lessons I've learned. is Tom advice.
Tom Freiling (32:01)
Right,
right. There are so many, frankly. Somebody told me a long time ago, you got to go with what you know. And it sounds like really basic, but I've leaned on that. I think you need to lean into what it is that you know and understand the best.
and spend your time and energies there. I'm a big believer in working on your strengths, not your weaknesses, and really leaning to your strengths. And you might take that too far at times, but I try to ignore my weaknesses and just lean into the strengths as much as I can. So I think I'm good at looking around the next corner. I'm not a good long-term planner. I think I'm a great short-term planner, very short-term.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:45)
Yeah.
Tom Freiling (32:57)
I'm really good at looking around the next corner and making decisions. That's how I make my decisions basically is continually looking around the next corner. Yeah. I'm not good at the long-term and for a while I tried to work at that and then I gave up on it because that's not where I found my success. found my success, you know, another way. I just, yeah. Another piece of advice the same gentleman gave me, his name is John Mason. He's a bestselling author.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:05)
Immediately.
All
Tom Freiling (33:27)
he, always told me to be an original, not a copy, be yourself. And, those times when I tried to be somebody else, you know, it didn't work for me as well. So, I try to be myself and like, like myself. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:34)
Yeah.
Be authentic. That's
right. Well, you know, they call it part of the law of attraction. I don't know if you've heard this. It's like they're, you know, we all vibe a certain energy. And the more authentic we are, I mean, we talk about a lot in brands and branding, the more authentic a brand is, the consumer, the target, the audience can feel if that brand is fake or not.
Tom Freiling (34:04)
Thank
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:11)
Well, that's the same with people in our own personal brands that we, the more authentic we are, we kind of vibe out. is like, you know, thousands time more energetic that you can emote and emit. And so that's how you attract others in, into your orbit is by being the most authentic and the most genuine you can be. People can feel it.
Tom Freiling (34:39)
I agree. I agree 100%.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:40)
With the world of AI coming in,
you can still smell the artificialness. I was like, how are you reacting to AI coming into your category?
Tom Freiling (34:47)
Yes, yes, for sure. Well, and as a publisher and a writer,
Yeah, it's a little scary. mean, I can smell it a mile away. I know it instantly when I see it. Maybe I think a lot of people can, but as a writer and publisher, I really do. I mean, I do think it's going to change things for sure. I don't think we understand how exactly it's going to change things. But I do think that kind of segue into what you just talked about. I think that those individuals who are authentic and original are going to shine even more.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:08)
Right.
Tom Freiling (35:27)
Because as the content all looks and feels the same and AI content does all look and feel the same, those individuals who are able to, to be the original selves and right there, you know, from right from their original selves, they're really going to shine. So, but I think the temptation is going to be to lean on AI all the time and not, not be original anymore. So that's, know,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:34)
That's right.
That's right.
And I think
there's a place for it, especially like in our industry, market, it helps in our operations and stuff, but I still think as creators, the consumer, the user is gonna feel it and see it. And so if you really wanna connect with your audience and want to be seen, like if you're especially authors, it's their personal brand. It's like, you really need to, you need to...
Tom Freiling (35:57)
I'm
So.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:24)
You need to make sure it's unique and it's authentic to yourself. And AI cannot generate that.
Tom Freiling (36:27)
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:33)
All right, I'm gonna ask my big question of, if you had to sum up your entrepreneurial, your founder journey in one word, what would that word be?
Tom Freiling (36:45)
That word would be blessed because I think my success, when I look back on it, I scratch my head and wonder how it happened, how I did it, how I pulled it off, because I do not know. Sometimes people say, how did you do it, Tom? And I'll say, I don't know how I did it. I was just, I somehow was blessed with it. That's how I feel, honestly.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:00)
Yeah.
Yeah,
that's good. I think we also like my word is serendipitous. It just, didn't plan for it. Didn't really think I was, like it wasn't anything I dreamed about starting a company, but everything kind of just fell into place and it was, it became, you know, the universe, God, like whoever, know, that spiritual, was doors were opening.
Tom Freiling (37:10)
Okay. Yeah, it's similar.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:34)
window like everything was kind of paving the path and it was very serendipitous that things happen for a reason for me. And so was like.
Tom Freiling (37:43)
I believe that
too. do believe everything happens for a reason, you know, for sure. So, well, I think we align in a, we align that way for sure.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:49)
Yeah.
Yeah, like,
you know, you just got, but you got to pay attention. You got to, you got to listen and be ready and be open for that. All right. So next, so the next chapter, we talk about books and being, you know, if you think about your future, the next three years, five years, you know, on the horizon, what would be the word for your next chapter?
Tom Freiling (38:15)
The word for my next chapter is, I want to say bigger. I to say bigger, but I don't want to be bigger just to be bigger because that doesn't help anybody. It's more. want more. I want more influence. I'm honing in. be 59 years old this next year, and I want to take the five decades of experience and background.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:25)
Say big up,
Tom Freiling (38:45)
And I want to take it all and stuff it into the next 10 years and, you know, use all the, everything I've learned, all the wisdom I've learned in that first half a century. And I want to put it to good use, you know, I see, too many people, in their late fifties and early sixties, they, they start coasting. They put it into neutral. And I think it's the worst time to do that. Cause I think by that, by the time you've got to that point in your life,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:58)
Yeah.
Tom Freiling (39:14)
You're smarter than you've ever been. There's so much wisdom you've learned over the years. So it's time to put your foot on the gas pedal at that age and really make it happen because otherwise you're taking all that wisdom and you're just wasting it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:16)
that's a good point. Yes. Great.
That's right.
Well, and it's a gift. mean, when I look at like all that wisdom, but we're in things for a reason. God's given us these gifts and these purpose. Why wouldn't you share it? Like, and then part of that is you must share those gifts with others. So yeah, you just coast and you're just like, you know, become selfish with that wisdom and your gifts. You're not really leaning into your purpose and impact. So that is a great point.
Tom Freiling (39:37)
Yeah.
Yes.
Exactly.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:59)
well, my goodness, I'm like, I love how these conversations go. They go so right. They, they fly by and I've enjoyed having the conversation before we go. How do you want people to connect with you, learn more about you? If you have any offers to share, this is the time. Tell our listeners.
Tom Freiling (40:17)
Yeah, I don't have any offers,
offers per se, but I what I do is I help authors write and publish books. Whether or not you are writer or not, I'm a ghost writer as well. So if, if any of your listeners are interested in exploring that journey, then I'd love to talk to them. Our the website is friling agency.com and friling is F R E I L I N G friling agency.com or just Google my name.
you'll find the website pretty easily that way as well. So yeah, I talk to anyone and everyone who is thinking about, has thought about, or who has already written a book.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:58)
Perfect. We will tag everything and share the links. I appreciate you hanging out with us today. It's been fun. It's been fun.
Tom Freiling (41:06)
Thank you, Jennifer.
I would love the time. Thank you.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:09)
I love it. For everyone listening or watching us, thank you for joining in. This podcast episodes are always published on Sunday. So find us on Apple, find us on Spotify, whatever, but give us a five star review, like and share us, help us grow and build a more connected entrepreneurial community. Hello Chaos is one of the many resources brought to you by OrangeWIP. That is OrangeWIP W-I-P for Work in Progress.
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Tom Freiling (42:24)
you